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Jackie: For this week's podcastsinenglish.com we're talking about making cheese.
Richard: Yes because er... Jackie you recently went to see one of our neighbours in our small village, didn't you?
Jackie: Yes. Her name is Elena and she has a small flock of sheep and goats.
Richard: So what cheese did you make then? Sheep's cheese or goats' cheese?
Jackie: Actually I made er... sheep's cheese because... because the goats all have little babies so the milk is being used for the babies.
Richard: Ah right, okay. So, I suppose the first thing is you have to milk the sheep?
Jackie: Yeah, definitely. The ewes, female sheep.
Richard: And did you do any milking?
Jackie: I did. Elena did most of the milking. It's actually very difficult but she did let me have a go. The first time I did it, nothing. The second time it got a bit better [Richard laughs] and I did get some milk out but it's hard work.
Richard: Right. So obviously you start off with the... the raw milk, the unpasteurized milk. Then what do you do with that?
Jackie: Right, well she got about um... three litres of milk that morning and the first thing she did was strain the milk just to get out any little flies or impurities.
Richard: Okay, and then what?
Jackie: Well, cheese as you know, Richard, is curdled milk.
Richard: Yes you get um... the solids, the curds, and you separate them from the whey, the liquids.
Jackie: Exactly
Richard: So how did she do that?
Jackie: Well, she did it the real traditional way. Hanging up in her kitchen in the chimney were three very strange things. She took one down and it turned out to be the dried stomach of a... of a lamb...
Richard: Oh, god...
Jackie: ...that had been having milk from its mother...
Richard: Right
Jackie: ...so inside was the... was the milk, dried milk.
Richard: Dried, very ancient milk.
Jackie: And this is, this is rennet.
Richard: Ah, okay, yes, yes. 'Cos with modern methods you just add powdered rennet and I think you get it from the shop, don't you?
Jackie: Exactly
Richard: But this is real traditional way.
Jackie: Tiny spoonful of that, in with the milk and then she leaves it for about three hours.
Richard: And so that, the rennet, separates the curds, the solid parts from the whey, the liquid part.
Jackie: Yes. It curdles the milk.
Richard: Right, okay.
Jackie: Exactly. Then after three hours um... she then separates the curds from the whey and then she puts the curds in a... in a small metallic mold.
Richard: Right, okay.
Jackie: More whey kept coming out so she did it quite a few times. When she was happy she... she sprinkled some salt over the top and she left it.
Richard: So it's like a... like a jelly then, is it?
Jackie: A soft cheese, a soft cheese.
Richard: Oh right, okay. And you can eat that straightaway can you?
Jackie: At that stage you can eat it straightaway. Yes, and it's called fresh cheese.
Richard: And what did that taste like?
Jackie: I didn't think it had a very strong taste at that stage. But what she does with most of the cheese, she just leaves them in the kitchen and slowly but surely they get yellower and yellower.
Richard: Er, okay and then it... it forms a hard skin, does it?
Jackie: Yes, the rind.
Richard: Right, yes, okay.
Jackie: And then this is the cured cheese, the cheese... the cheese is curing at this stage you see.
Richard: Okay.
Jackie: And then she hangs it on a little wooden...
Richard: Rack is it?
Jackie: ...little shelf hanging outside for about three to four months.
Richard: And then, that's it.
Jackie: That's it. And she gave me some of that cheese. We had it for lunch.
Richard: Yes. I do know about that. That was absolutely delicious.
Jackie: Yes, so it's really nice that in our village we have someone who makes real traditional sheep's cheese. But, she says the goats' cheese is even better. That will be next month.
Richard: [laughs] I can't wait to try that then.
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